What else can you do with HTML

Faucet · 04-26-2006, 08:46 PM

Well we all know (or should know) html is basically the foundation of webpages. But besides the typical fonts and tables and of course the webpage layout <html> <head> <table> </table> etc., what else can you do with html?

Cota · 04-26-2006, 10:31 PM

Pay the bills?

Contention · 04-27-2006, 01:06 AM

That's a good question.

lpxxfaintxx · 04-27-2006, 07:03 AM

All you can do with html alone is design. That's pretty much it. It's almost useless without the help of javascrript, php, asp, etc. You should really start learning PHP, it helps a LOT.

chameleon · 04-27-2006, 08:30 AM

HTML is = I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know - hypertext markup language, and markup ism by definitioinm design and layout. You can mak pretty sttic pages with it. To make them come alive, you need jaavascript, asp, php, perl... php is the gold standard right now. And cssgives you some very nice control ober esign elements,

lpxxfaintxx · 04-29-2006, 06:32 AM

....thats what I just said...

iughk · 04-29-2006, 11:28 AM

I think chameleon just wanted to get a little more indepth about it. I’m sure she wasn’t trying to step on any toes.

Cota · 05-01-2006, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpxxfaintxx

All you can do with html alone is design. That's pretty much it. It's almost useless without the help of javascrript, php, asp, etc. You should really start learning PHP, it helps a LOT.

Thats not a very accurate statement. You cant really design in HTML...HTML allows you to format data on the screen, thats about it. Its also like a portal for things such as PHP, javascript, etc. Which is why those languages came about, to extend HTML through add-ons so to speak.

FatalityShard · 05-01-2006, 08:00 PM

Making layouts with tables is a big NO NO!

Cota · 05-01-2006, 08:48 PM

Here we go again...why is it a NO NO! Because some jack off at the W3C told you thats the way it is....There was another post about this subject in which I provided some nice evidence that tables -vs- CSS layouts is a dead issue. Processing time...same...So again, why is it a no no...

by the way...if you're going to make a claim...please back it up. Unless its an opinion..then its all good.

CyCL3 · 05-01-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cota

by the way...if you're going to make a claim...please back it up. Unless its an opinion..then its all good.

Claim vs. opinion... That is always important to point out. I agree totally with your views about the css vs. tables topic.

chameleon · 05-01-2006, 09:34 PM

Frankly, combining the two can give you the best of both worlds (in my opinion of course), depending on your intent. Until all browsers handle CSS tags the same way, tables are the easiest way to make sure that your design works well in any browser - but CSS rules for giving you flexibility and ease of making sitewide changes. And CSS CAN be used for some really stunning designs.

FatalityShard · 05-02-2006, 06:34 PM

No need to snap out Cota, but I ask you, do you see professional web developers using tables in their designs? You may start at tables, but then you move onto a thing called CSS.

Cota · 05-02-2006, 09:54 PM

Do I see professional designers using tables...every morning when I look in the mirror. I snap because for 10 years I've heard every newbie to moderate designer or developer slam tables, and slam anything microsoft, and slam anything the W3C, or unix babies tell them to. Test it yourself. Experiment on your own, do NOT believe everything they tell you. I have 40 prorgamming books that are full of wrong information and code that will never work.

So dont sit there and tell people something is a "no no" without facts to support it. At that point, you're just promoting incorrect information, and passing your damn opinion as fact. Thats a NO NO!

Before start typing your response think about it carefully. I've been doing this for almost 10 years.

Toucan42 · 05-02-2006, 10:40 PM

It's amazing how deeply the CSS vs Table question digs into folks. In a city full of coders and designers you could probably create a riot over this one question.

Getting back to what can you do with HTML - you can describe the appearance of content and using some constructs you can describe the layout. CSS was late to the party and not every browser plays nice so tables still happen.

In answer to the question from Fatality - "do you see professional web developers using tables" - the answer is yes. Everywhere and all the time. There are plenty of examples of pure CSS design and bully for them. But like Cota I have been at this for over a decade and use tables nearly every single day. It's easy and it works.

I also use Microsoft products (Cota we should get together for a beer).

As for preaching PHP as the end all - why not recommned Ruby or .NET or classic ASP? PHP is no silver bullet. Not every site owner wants to manage an Apache server or run PHP an an ISAPI filter under IIS.

Again - I'm not saying one is better than the other. I use PHP and ASP. I use tables and I use CSS. But in answer to that question - "What else can you do with HTML" - pretty much just give the browser a document. It's the other things inside the document that make magic.

Cota · 05-03-2006, 04:12 AM

I completely agree with you Toucan. I do a lot of Flash development and still use tables. And yes, I use CSS a lot also. CSS is a great thing for global font changes and stuff like that. I'm not knocking CSS or PHP. I've been an MS developer for years, VB, C+, ASP, MS SQL....more recently I've doing PHP and MySQL. Every language has its ups and downs, its just a matter of finding the right language for that particular job.

*Also note, I recently gave up smoking, so I'm still a bit edgy.

04-26-2006, 08:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Faucet Member Follower Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 32	What else can you do with HTML Well we all know (or should know) html is basically the foundation of webpages. But besides the typical fonts and tables and of course the webpage layout <html> <head> <table> </table> etc., what else can you do with html? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-27-2006, 01:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
Contention Moderator Aficionado Join Date: Mar 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 147	That's a good question. __________________ Misc Tutorials: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Tutorial on Flash Interval Managers To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Simple Ajax tutorial for beginners To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Tutorial on creating CSS tabs To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Some things you should read before posting

04-27-2006, 08:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
chameleon Senior Member Aficionado Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 51 Posts: 244	HTML is = I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know - hypertext markup language, and markup ism by definitioinm design and layout. You can mak pretty sttic pages with it. To make them come alive, you need jaavascript, asp, php, perl... php is the gold standard right now. And cssgives you some very nice control ober esign elements, __________________ Chameleons dream in color. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-29-2006, 11:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
iughk Moderator Aficionado Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 123	I think chameleon just wanted to get a little more indepth about it. I’m sure she wasn’t trying to step on any toes. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2006, 09:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
chameleon Senior Member Aficionado Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 51 Posts: 244	Frankly, combining the two can give you the best of both worlds (in my opinion of course), depending on your intent. Until all browsers handle CSS tags the same way, tables are the easiest way to make sure that your design works well in any browser - but CSS rules for giving you flexibility and ease of making sitewide changes. And CSS CAN be used for some really stunning designs. __________________ Chameleons dream in color. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-26-2006, 10:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cota Senior Member Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 414	Pay the bills?

04-27-2006, 07:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
lpxxfaintxx Member Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 26 Posts: 69	All you can do with html alone is design. That's pretty much it. It's almost useless without the help of javascrript, php, asp, etc. You should really start learning PHP, it helps a LOT.

04-29-2006, 06:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
lpxxfaintxx Member Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 26 Posts: 69	....thats what I just said...

05-01-2006, 08:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
FatalityShard Member Enthusiast Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 91	Making layouts with tables is a big NO NO!

05-01-2006, 08:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cota Senior Member Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 414	Here we go again...why is it a NO NO! Because some jack off at the W3C told you thats the way it is....There was another post about this subject in which I provided some nice evidence that tables -vs- CSS layouts is a dead issue. Processing time...same...So again, why is it a no no... by the way...if you're going to make a claim...please back it up. Unless its an opinion..then its all good.

05-02-2006, 06:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
FatalityShard Member Enthusiast Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 91	No need to snap out Cota, but I ask you, do you see professional web developers using tables in their designs? You may start at tables, but then you move onto a thing called CSS.

05-02-2006, 09:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cota Senior Member Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 414	Do I see professional designers using tables...every morning when I look in the mirror. I snap because for 10 years I've heard every newbie to moderate designer or developer slam tables, and slam anything microsoft, and slam anything the W3C, or unix babies tell them to. Test it yourself. Experiment on your own, do NOT believe everything they tell you. I have 40 prorgamming books that are full of wrong information and code that will never work. So dont sit there and tell people something is a "no no" without facts to support it. At that point, you're just promoting incorrect information, and passing your damn opinion as fact. Thats a NO NO! Before start typing your response think about it carefully. I've been doing this for almost 10 years.

05-02-2006, 10:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
Toucan42 Junior Member Casual Browser Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 39 Posts: 23	It's amazing how deeply the CSS vs Table question digs into folks. In a city full of coders and designers you could probably create a riot over this one question. Getting back to what can you do with HTML - you can describe the appearance of content and using some constructs you can describe the layout. CSS was late to the party and not every browser plays nice so tables still happen. In answer to the question from Fatality - "do you see professional web developers using tables" - the answer is yes. Everywhere and all the time. There are plenty of examples of pure CSS design and bully for them. But like Cota I have been at this for over a decade and use tables nearly every single day. It's easy and it works. I also use Microsoft products (Cota we should get together for a beer). As for preaching PHP as the end all - why not recommned Ruby or .NET or classic ASP? PHP is no silver bullet. Not every site owner wants to manage an Apache server or run PHP an an ISAPI filter under IIS. Again - I'm not saying one is better than the other. I use PHP and ASP. I use tables and I use CSS. But in answer to that question - "What else can you do with HTML" - pretty much just give the browser a document. It's the other things inside the document that make magic.

05-03-2006, 04:12 AM	#16 (permalink)
Cota Senior Member Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 414	I completely agree with you Toucan. I do a lot of Flash development and still use tables. And yes, I use CSS a lot also. CSS is a great thing for global font changes and stuff like that. I'm not knocking CSS or PHP. I've been an MS developer for years, VB, C+, ASP, MS SQL....more recently I've doing PHP and MySQL. Every language has its ups and downs, its just a matter of finding the right language for that particular job. *Also note, I recently gave up smoking, so I'm still a bit edgy.

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